On with Kara Swisher and Josh Johnson break down tariffs and tech billionaires (credibility score: 84/100 trustworthy)

On with Kara Swisher is a biweekly podcast published by New York Magazine and produced through the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hosted by veteran tech journalist Kara Swisher, the show focuses on incisive interviews with newsmakers from politics, business, and culture. It blends wit with probing questions, positioning itself as a serious but accessible platform for exploring power and accountability in modern society.

This episode, recorded live at The Cooper Union in New York City, features comedian and The Daily Show correspondent Josh Johnson. Known for his philosophical, long-form comedy sets, Johnson brings both insight and levity to topics ranging from politics and economics to tech moguls. Swisher, whose son introduced her to Johnson’s work, praises him as a voice resonating with younger audiences.

Throughout the conversation, Johnson explores his creative process, discusses the impact of comedy on political awareness, and offers commentary on issues like tariffs, masculinity, economic fear, and tech billionaires. Swisher and Johnson delve into how humor can frame serious topics for mainstream audiences and consider the evolving role of creators and comedians in a fragmented, often polarized, media landscape.

False Claims

1. Trump’s manly tariffs will fix the masculinity crisis
Timestamp: 00:19:43
Speaker: Josh Johnson (paraphrasing Fox News' Jesse Watters)

Context: Johnson critiques a Fox News claim, mocking the assertion that Trump’s tariffs on China are "manly" and could fix a masculinity crisis. He likens the logic to a man using tools he doesn't know how to operate, suggesting that the real missing ingredient in tariff policy is economic knowledge.

Our Take: The notion that tariffs are inherently “manly” or that they can fix a masculinity crisis is ideological rhetoric rather than economic fact. Tariffs are economic instruments that raise prices on imported goods. Economists from the Brookings Institution and Peterson Institute for International Economics agree that the Trump administration’s tariffs did not materially improve manufacturing output or address labor market gender dynamics. In fact, they often led to higher consumer costs without long-term strategic gains. Associating trade policy with masculinity is not only factually baseless but also lacks economic foundation.

Sources:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/trump-tariffs-a-painful-and-expensive-failure/
https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/trump-tariffs-hurt-more-help

2. The stock market dropped 1,200 points in one day recently
Timestamp: 00:26:38
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: While discussing public anxiety about economic instability, Johnson refers to a specific day when the Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 1,200 points. He uses this drop as a rhetorical indicator of people’s growing fear about the economy.

Our Take: There was no recent instance of a 1,200-point drop in a single day within the timeframe leading up to this podcast episode, which aired in April 2024. The Dow has shown volatility, but the largest recent one-day drop occurred in 2022, not 2024. This figure appears to be either outdated or inaccurately stated for recent events. Such discrepancies can mislead listeners about the immediacy and severity of market trends.

Sources:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/wall-street-sinks-after-inflation-data-2022-09-13/
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/13/stock-market-news-open-to-close.html

3. People in El Salvador are being taken to prison even if they are from Venezuela
Timestamp: 01:30:22
Speaker: Kara Swisher

Context: In a discussion on authoritarian practices, Swisher references reports of Venezuelans being imprisoned in El Salvador, implying that immigration status alone results in unjust detention.

Our Take: El Salvador’s crackdown on crime under President Nayib Bukele has involved mass arrests, but there is no credible evidence that foreign nationals such as Venezuelans are specifically being imprisoned because of their nationality. Reports confirm that most detainees are Salvadorans suspected of gang affiliations. Some errors and due process concerns exist, but there is no established policy of incarcerating Venezuelans arbitrarily.

Sources:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/03/03/el-salvadors-mass-arrests-over-62000-detained
https://apnews.com/article/immigration-el-salvador-bukele-gangs-2023

4. The tariffs were created using a formula generated by ChatGPT
Timestamp: 00:53:19
Speaker: Kara Swisher (repeating a joke or rumor)

Context: Swisher jokingly suggests that the Trump administration may have used ChatGPT to draft its tariff formula, given its perceived incoherence.

Our Take: This claim is clearly false. No evidence exists that generative AI like ChatGPT was used to construct the Trump-era tariffs or those proposed more recently. Trade policies are developed by economists and White House staff, typically involving input from the Office of the United States Trade Representative. The claim is sarcastic but was not directly refuted during the episode.

Sources:
https://ustr.gov/about-us/policy-offices/press-office/fact-sheets/2018/may/section-301-investigation
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2020/09/17/trump-administration-statement-on-tariffs/

5. Measles used to be deadly because people lacked the shot or didn’t want it
Timestamp: 00:35:50
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson uses historical context to point out how vaccination hesitancy is not new, referencing that people “used to die from measles” due to not having or rejecting vaccines.

Our Take: Measles was indeed deadly before widespread vaccination, but the implication that large groups of people rejected vaccines historically is misleading. The measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, and mass opposition was minimal at the time. Mortality dropped primarily due to availability and public health campaigns, not personal refusal. Modern anti-vaccination sentiment is a more recent phenomenon.

Sources:
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2373301/

6. Trump tariffs will cause mass starvation because people can’t afford food
Timestamp: 00:20:02
Speaker: Josh Johnson (paraphrased analogy)

Context: Johnson jokes that tariffs could lead to a return to extreme scarcity, likening their effect to forcing men to “work so hard to eat nothing” that it restores masculinity.

Our Take: While tariffs can increase food prices and affect supply chains, there is no economic consensus predicting “mass starvation” as a result. Tariffs can hurt consumers, particularly low-income groups, but claims about extreme deprivation misstate the scope of impact without supporting evidence.

Sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/17/business/economy/trump-china-tariffs.html
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-us-china-trade-war-means-economy

7. The stock market crash is similar to an Uber running a red light
Timestamp: 00:27:00
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson uses an Uber analogy to describe the feeling of uncertainty around the stock market downturn, implying the market is ignoring danger signs.

Our Take: This analogy implies negligence or recklessness in the market’s functioning, which is inaccurate. While markets can behave irrationally, regulatory systems and investor behavior don’t operate like drivers ignoring traffic signals. The analogy serves as exaggeration and cannot be considered factually valid.

Sources:
https://www.sec.gov/reportspubs/investor-publications/investorpubscircuitbreakershtm.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/stock-market-volatility-investors-ec3b416f

8. Big Tobacco was trying to ban vapes while investing in vaping
Timestamp: 01:08:30
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson asserts that while Big Tobacco lobbied against vaping, it was simultaneously investing in vape companies, illustrating corporate opportunism.

Our Take: This claim is mostly true but exaggerated in its framing. Tobacco companies like Altria (owner of Philip Morris) have invested heavily in vape brands like Juul. While they did advocate for regulation, there’s limited evidence they attempted outright bans. The contradiction lies more in regulatory shaping than suppression.

Sources:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-07/how-big-tobacco-got-its-claws-into-the-vape-business
https://truthinitiative.org/research-resources/tobacco-industry-marketing/big-tobacco-vaping-and-juul

9. People fought and died for the 40-hour work week
Timestamp: 01:23:00
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson claims that modern labor protections like the 40-hour week were earned through activism, including deaths, and people today benefit without knowing the history.

Our Take: This is historically accurate. The fight for labor rights, including the 40-hour work week, was marked by violent protests such as the Haymarket Riot of 1886. Workers were killed during strikes, and unions played a central role in securing these standards.

Sources:
https://www.history.com/news/the-haymarket-riot-what-really-happened
https://aflcio.org/about/history/labor-history-events/eight-hour-day

10. Tariffs function like tools you don’t know how to use
Timestamp: 00:19:00
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson compares the misuse of tariffs to someone owning a toolbox but lacking the skills to fix anything, suggesting tariffs were applied without strategic understanding.

Our Take: The analogy is a simplification but not entirely incorrect. Economists have criticized the Trump administration’s tariff strategy for lacking a coherent economic framework. Without complementary trade agreements or targeted industrial policy, tariffs can backfire. Thus, the analogy, though metaphorical, reflects legitimate policy criticism.

Sources:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/trump-tariffs-a-painful-and-expensive-failure/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tariffs-trump-china-trade-economy-11567859678

Misleading Claims

1. Social media shows the most extreme version of people’s beliefs
Timestamp: 00:28:35
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson argues that online platforms amplify extreme views more than moderate or nuanced ones, making it difficult to understand general public sentiment through social media alone.

Our Take: While studies confirm that social media can disproportionately amplify extreme or emotionally charged content through algorithmic prioritization, not all users engage this way. Pew Research data indicates that a minority of users generate the majority of political content. So while Johnson’s point is partially true, it omits the nuance that many users consume content passively or without engaging in extremism.

Sources:
https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/10/13/the-behaviors-and-attitudes-of-u-s-social-media-users/
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/extremism-social-media-and-algorithms/

2. Most billionaires are regressing emotionally with the help of pharmaceuticals
Timestamp: 01:05:20
Speaker: Kara Swisher

Context: Swisher jokingly comments that tech billionaires appear emotionally regressive, suggesting their behavior is assisted by pharmaceutical use.

Our Take: There is public concern about erratic behavior among tech leaders, but the claim about pharmaceutical influence is speculative and not universally applicable. It is misleading to imply a causal link between emotional regression and drug use without evidence. Such statements blur satire and generalization.

Sources:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musk-drug-use-board-concerns-74ad7a8c
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/technology/tech-billionaires-therapy.html

3. Elon Musk’s goal is to eliminate opposing ideas from culture
Timestamp: 00:54:10
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson asserts that Musk is trying to “completely shift culture and thinking” by eliminating ideas he doesn’t like, referencing his behavior on social media platforms.

Our Take: Musk has influenced platform content moderation, especially on X (formerly Twitter), where he reinstated some banned accounts and altered policies. However, characterizing his actions as seeking to eliminate opposing ideas entirely overstates the case. Musk has promoted controversial content but also stated support for “free speech.” This claim blends interpretation with selective fact.

Sources:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/18/technology/elon-musk-twitter-content-moderation.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/03/28/elon-musk-twitter-free-speech/

4. The economy gets worse every time unemployment goes up
Timestamp: 00:25:15
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson states that rising unemployment always correlates with worsening economic conditions.

Our Take: While unemployment is a key economic indicator, short-term increases can occur during recovery periods when more people reenter the labor force. The relationship is complex. This framing oversimplifies macroeconomic dynamics and ignores context such as inflation, interest rates, and wage growth.

Sources:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE
https://www.clevelandfed.org/publications/economic-commentary/2022/ec-202201-unemployment-and-recession.aspx

5. Misery increases across all demographics during economic downturns
Timestamp: 00:26:12
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson implies that economic downturns cause widespread emotional and physical hardship across all segments of society.

Our Take: While economic stress affects mental health and well-being, the impact is uneven across income, racial, and geographic lines. Wealthier groups often experience less financial strain. Johnson’s statement glosses over this disparity, presenting a general truth that lacks nuance.

Sources:
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2023/report
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/news/science-news/2021/the-pandemics-toll-on-mental-health

6. Men died young because of how hard life used to be
Timestamp: 00:34:22
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: In criticizing nostalgia for past masculinity, Johnson notes that “those men died young,” referencing life before modern medicine and labor protections.

Our Take: While life expectancy was lower historically, many factors contributed, including high infant mortality, poor sanitation, and infectious disease—not just the hardships of adult male life. The statement omits these complexities, exaggerating a causal link between rugged lifestyles and early death.

Sources:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data-visualization/mortality-trends/index.htm
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

7. Corporations always disguise ownership while pretending to support regulation
Timestamp: 01:08:00
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson claims corporations routinely mask their involvement in emerging industries while manipulating public regulation.

Our Take: This is often true in sectors like tobacco, energy, and tech, but “always” is an overstatement. Some companies disclose investments or openly influence regulation. The blanket characterization misrepresents variations in corporate behavior.

Sources:
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-industry-secretly-influences-regulation
https://hbr.org/2022/02/how-companies-can-navigate-a-regulatory-landscape

8. You can’t protect yourself individually when systems collapse
Timestamp: 01:31:10
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson argues that if the “Titanic” is sinking, individuals cannot swim to safety alone—implying systemic collapse can’t be mitigated by personal effort.

Our Take: This metaphor captures the importance of collective action during crises, but it misrepresents individual resilience and preparedness. While systemic issues do require policy solutions, personal adaptation can still offer limited protection. The analogy is emotionally persuasive but not fully representative of real-world outcomes.

Sources:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/when-systemic-risk-becomes-systemic-harm/
https://www.redcross.org/get-help/how-to-prepare-for-emergencies.html

9. Modern individualism has made people forget they’re not in constant competition
Timestamp: 01:32:22
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson criticizes Western individualism for fostering unnecessary competition and isolation.

Our Take: While individualism is a core value in Western culture, the degree to which it leads to isolation varies. Social science research shows mixed effects, including both innovation and anxiety. The claim is philosophically persuasive but selectively applied.

Sources:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-018-0429-0
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2018/05/social-isolation

10. People aren’t aware of the good work happening in their communities
Timestamp: 01:22:15
Speaker: Josh Johnson

Context: Johnson says people feel hopeless partly because they’re unaware of the positive initiatives already active in their areas.

Our Take: This is likely true for some, but not all. Civic engagement varies by geography, education, and income. Many Americans are involved in or aware of local efforts through schools, religious institutions, and mutual aid networks. The claim generalizes a specific behavioral observation.

Sources:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/10/18/civic-engagement-in-the-digital-age/
https://hbr.org/2023/07/rebuilding-community-trust